Tuesday, March 23, 2010

Sygesykring... Healthcare

Facebook er ikke stor nok for alle kommenter om Obamas plan... :o) Så jeg vil meget gerne flytte mine tænker her.....

Facebook is not big enough for all the comments regarding Obama's plan.... :o) So I thought I would move my thoughts here....

Jeg sammenligner ikke Danmark og USA...de er 2 meget forskellige lande og du kan ikke "generalize" imellem de to. MEN jeg har boet i begge to lande og jeg har oplevet "den god og den dårlig", (og i mit hoved jeg kan forestille en "perfekt sted" med ting fra USA og Danmark blandt sammen! LOL) og jeg er meget bekymret om amerikas reaktion til Obamas plan. Jeg er UTROLIG STOLT at være en amerikaner men jeg kan se mange område hvor mit hjemland har brug for at ændre sig..... for at være den bedste for alle som bor der og kalder dem selv amerikaner....

I am not comparing Denmark and the US... they are two different countries and you cannot generalize between the two. HOWEVER I have lived both places and experienced the good and the bad in both (and in my head I like to imagine a "perfect place" that has the good from both places mixed together!! LOL), and now I am really worried about America's reaction to Obama's plan. I am INCREDIBLY PROUD to be an American, but I can see so many areas in which my country needs to change......in order to the best place for all the live there....and call themselves Americans....

SÅ.....
Jeg vil meget gerne høre fra alle som læser min blog om 2 spørgsmål så vi kan bedre forstå vores selv og hinanden---

SO.....
I would really like to hear the opinions from all those that read my blog on these 2 questions so we can better understand ourselves and each other-


1) Do all people have a fundamental right to healthcare and who should provide that healthcare?



2) Should medicine be a privatized industry?

14 comments:

LadyFi said...

All people have a right to healthcare! What kind of country doesn't want to help its weaker memebers?

I don't think it should be privatized because then it is only those who can pay for it that have access to it. Unless, like here in Sweden, you can go to the private doctor's and pay the same set fee as for the non-private doctor.

Angel said...

I will be good and just answer your questions. I have a blog post of my own brewing up on this :)

1. Yes I absolutely believe everyone has a right to health care. I think it should be a mix of private and social/government provided services.
2. I don't think private medicine is a bad thing but I think it is bad when it is the only option.

Jennie said...

Bag of worms. What is a fundamental right? Air to breathe, water (not necessarily clean?), freedom. These are basics, before anyone even gets close to building a nation state that can even imagine healthcare as a fundamental right. But in our industrialized, theorized, democratic, humanitarian countries, then "yes", everyone has a right to healthcare.

About medicine. It's not necessarily either/or, in practice, is it?

Annemette Kuhlmann said...

Lige som dig Kelli, så har jeg også en ide om at alle de bedste ting fra DK og USA ville skabe det perfekte sted.
Med hensyn til sygesikring, er jeg meget dansk og er vokset op med at ALLE, uanset indkomst og herkomst, har ret til at få den samme optimale lægehjælp.
Det er også en del af lægeløftet (http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A6gel%C3%B8ftet)
Jeg kan mærke at det støder mig (og skræmmer mig), at jeg herovre, på trods af den internationale sygeforsikring vi har, skal igennem en samtale med en finansiel rådgiver, hver gang jeg kommer på skadestuen eller til lægen (hvad nu hvis jeg dukker op med noget livstruende, der kræver behandling straks....men først skal igennem samtalen om betalingen, fordi de ikke kan finde ud af vores internationale forsikring???) og jeg får fornemmelsen af at de ikke vil hjælpe mig eller mine børn, før at de ved at jeg kan betale for det og jeg er ikke sikker på om alle de henvisninger, som jeg får hos lægen til andre speciallæger, virkelige er nødvendige eller om det bare er en måde at trække penge ud af forsikringsselskaberne???
Til gengæld, har man, som godt forsikret, adgang til Verdens mest specialiserede og avancerede sundhedssystem.
Jeg synes, med mine danske øjne og følelser, at dagens beslutning igår er et vigtigt skridt på vejen til at gøre det amerikanske sundhedssystem til Verdens bedste, med lige muligheder for høj som lav.
....og det er et system, som det er i alles interesse at bidrage til. Pointen er jo at det amerikanerne betaler i sygeforsikring, sagtens kunne gå i en stor pulje (med det grimme fy-ord "skat"/"tax")og derved ville alle vinde stort (og grådige forsikringsselskaber ville ikke være et problem længere)
Dit andet spørgsmål har jeg svært ved at svare entydigt på.

Caution Flag said...

I get conficted in my thinking because I do believe people should be able to have health care, but then I think we have a responsibility to care for ourselves and not be a burden to our neighbor. I suppose it's that line in between being provided for and providing that causes so much trouble.

Should it be privatized? ??

I think the new law is a great start, but I still don't know how anyone will ever afford it. So a person can't be turned down because of a pre-existing condition, but won't their premiums be higher than they can afford?

O said...

The pursuit of happiness is a right from the Declaration of Independence, and I think the US were brillant for stating that right. But how do you achieve that goal when your health can't be taking care of?
Many people treat health like it's a business, if you are unfortunate with bad health it's because you didn't do the right thing. I believe everyone should have healthcare. Even if you have a lot of money in the USA, sometimes you don't get treated the right way, it's all a game of insurance company deciding what is best for you. In France, you can go to any doctor you want, when you want it. But the sytem is crashing because everyone abuses it. So I think there should be a solution in the middle, for everyone to be treated the right way, and not abusing the system as well.
Private medecine? I don't see it as a problem because here french doctors are all private, but the price they make you pay is controlled. They are reasonable, and their plans is not to become millionaire that plays golf.
The labs and the medecine company is another story? Their lobbying, especially in the World Health organization, is really a problem. They are a powerful industry that starts to take decision that have nothing to do with health, it's all about what they can get in their pocket.

Jennie said...

@Caution Flag - one of the big reasons that this Bill is a good idea, is that exactly because everyone is required to be covered (and will get gov't help to pay, if needed) then as a result, the premiums will be lower. For everyone. And also, hopefully the cost of the actualy medical care will be lower too. The fact of the matter is, that with the current system, the price is much higher than necessary. There are different reasons for that, but the upshot is, is that once the new system settles in, costs should fall, all around. It's really a win/win.

dee_rogers said...

Doctors were interviewed in the Dallas area - they say there are no enough family practice physicians in the US to handle an influx of 30 million more people. The # of medical studengs going into family practice has declined 50% in the past decade. The law may say everyone has access..but if there are not enough doctors, there will be no access for many. Right to healthcare?? I have mixed feelings - I believe WE and our government should help people who cannot help themselves...but I do not feel that I should have to pay for people to have healthcare or anything else, if they are NOT WILLING to work and contribute to society. There are MANY people like that - I don't believe this only happens in the U.S. Privatized medical combined with government care has not worked too well in the past -not sure about that one.

Nina Ø said...

I am a Danish American and come to visit my family in Denmark as often as I can. I see they have a higher quality of life than I have in America.

Everyone has the right to the SAME health care. Rich or poor should not make a difference.

Private or public is not really the question. The real question especially in American is For Profit or Non Profit. No Health Care should be For Profit. That is the worst mistake America made.

People are coming to Denmark to buy hearing aids because they make some of the best and they are sold at ridiculous for profit prices in America. Each person who has a hearing loss should have an affordable efficient hearing aid. We should meet the production costs but no one should get rich over someone's hearing loss. Get rich over having a pink refrigerator instead of a white one. Not a basic life need.

Jennie said...

Most people are willing to work, but some people are incapable of doing so. Maybe because of a genetic disease, maybe because of mental illness (diagnosed or not), perhaps an accident at work that does not offer coverage. Should we really be the judge of those people?

What about the people who are not willing to work, but have coverage, simply because their parents are wealthy. This is where the discrepancy starts. It's ok, that some people are better off from birth, but if it's not society's noble cause to help those less fortunate, I don't know what the heck is.

BABS said...

In a compassionate society, every body would have the right to basic health care.

Which they DO get in Denmark: you can be a drunk with five kroner in your pocket have a heart attack in the street and you'll be driven to the same hospital for the same kind of attention a lawyer would get in the same situation (heart attack in the street). But it is only basic health care and the standards are not the highest in the developed world. The system is flawed and by no means 'free'.

And there is no such thing as free medicine here as even that drunk will be given a bill for his medicine. Granted it is much subsidized, but it is worth remembering that there are many people in Denmark who do not cash in their prescriptions because they cannot afford their monthly medicine bill. It's the same with dental care here, so many adults I know are not going to the dentist for much needed work because they simply cannot afford the bills.

Of course it really depends on what kind of health care you want, but for many there is a lack of options in Denmark and even though we pay for healthcare out of our taxes there are many treatments we still have to pay for out of our pockets. I cannot afford the much needed work I need doing on my back (the doc referred me to a chiropractic) and it is not covered by anything in the mythical 'free healthcare' package.

I'd certainly prefer to have a choice about who my surgeon would be or a choice about what treatment I could get, but the massive tax we pay doesn't cover that and it's just roulette when it comes to how one is treated. Those who have a good health care story to tell here here tend to have lucked out. It's just luck.

I've met more people with bad 'butchering slaphanded' or misdiagnosis stories to tell of the Danish health care system than I have of people who have lucked out.

The general doctor I have is hand picked after interviewing many, but this isn't the norm of how it is done here. I was met with hostility when I wanted to personally choose who my doctor was and told that in Denmark: 'we all pay our taxes and get what we are given'. This is alright for people who don't mind, feel they have no choice or who don't want personalized services.

The problem is that something like 40% of Danes now have a private medical insurance of some sort. We pay massive family crushing taxes and get only basic choice when it comes to healthcare in DK.

I love Obama because I never thought I would see the day when the president of the USA would be an intelligent kind and caring person, and I am in support of providing health care for all, but the problem is, we still need the option of private health care, and if we use private healthcare we should have some sort of deduction tax wise. I don't resent paying high taxes to pay for a system that treats smokers with lung cancer or for the mending of the bones and brains of drunk drivers, but you know, it does bite every now and then. So much of the bad health we see in Denmark is lifestyle and drink or smoking related, I really wish someone would sort that expense out because it is the people who don't take care of themselves who really weigh the system down, the people who can but won't.

So how do we remedy the fact that the Danes are basically prone to lifestyle diseases and alcohol related accidents and that this cost the 'free health care system' more? Mmm...better education here? More international teachers? ;)

Oh and those people I know who can't afford to go to the dentist? They don't eat so much candy and they take really good care of their teeth. Like Dr Phil says: "If you don't have a decent health care plan, you better have a plan to stay healthy!" This is as true in 'free healthcare myth' Denmark as it is in privatized 'the poor die' America.

Mom said...

I was surprised by Jennie's comment about the hearing aids. I didn't think anything was cheaper in Denmark than in the U.S. American products are sold for profit - it is the "American Way." I guess some would think we are capitalist......but that is part of our history. The settlers came here for freedome of religion and built our country on hard work. If you work hard in the U.S. you can be successful and live a pretty good life. I'm also glad to hear Bab's perspective to the Danish healthcare. I don't want to sound like I don't care about others - I DO! But I get frustrated by those that do not contribute because they don't want to work.....and they are a drain on the system. It isn't right for those of us who go to work every day of our life. I volunteer to help others less fortunate and I do want my government to help those who can't help themselves...but I don't have much compassion for those who abuse the system. I'm sure the US is not the only country in the world with people like that.

Astrid said...

Jeg er i en vis udstrækning enig med Babs.
Jeg er glad for at jeg lever i et samfund, hvor jeg aldrig kommer til at stå helt uden ret til medicinsk behandling. Det giver mig tryghed at vide, at hvis jeg skulle få brystkræft eller en anden livstruende sygdom, så ved jeg, at jeg kan få behandling. Uanset om jeg stadig er i mit gode job, eller om jeg er blevet arbejdsløs af en eller anden grund. Men jeg ville rigtig gerne have muligheden for flere frie valg. Jeg skal føde til juni og her ude på landet i Midtjylland er der ikke rigtig andre valgmuligheder end de jordemødre som hospitalet stiller til rådighed. Jeg vil rigtig gerne føde hjemme og det ville være rart, hvis det var en jordemoder jeg kendte, som kom, når jeg ringede efter hende. Som det er nu må jeg bare krydse fingre for, at hende der dukker op fra hospitalet er glad for hjemmefødsler og ikke synes det er uansvarligt (alle undersøgelser viser, at det er det ikke, hvis man er sund og rask).
Så flere frie valg ville være rigtig godt. Men jeg synes at alle har ret til den samme kvalitet af lægebehandling.
Til gengæld synes jeg at det er uetisk at blive rig på andre menneskers ulykke. Eller at udnytte mennesker, der er i nød. Jeg kan godt forstå Annemettes fornemmelse af, ikke at vide om de tests hun bliver sendt videre til er nødvendige, eller om de bare er en måde at skabe profit på. Sådan har jeg det selv, når jeg går til tandlægen her i Danmark. Jeg ville være virkelig utryg ved at have en læge,hvis privatøkonomi var direkte afhængig af, hvor mange behandlinger han foretog. Det er mit indtryk, at i Danmark foreslår lægerne ikke unødvendige og potentielt skadelige behandlinger og indgreb, fordi de ikke har nogen økonomisk interesse i det. Problemet kan jo så være, at de gør det modsatte og undlader at foreslå en potentielt gavnlig behandling, fordi de tænker på hospitalets økonomi... Jeg håber ikke det er et stort problem, men når man følger med i medierne, så kan man da godt blive bekymret for, om det er sådan. Det er nu ikke noget jeg har oplevet hos mig selv eller min omgangskreds.

Lisa said...

1)Yes healthcare is a basic human right. We have already set that standard for immediate need here in the U.S. A hospitol can not turn away anyone who is in critical need. However, the hospitals are going broke because of the uninsured showing up to the ER and unable to pay the massive bills. Others go bank rupt for this reason.
2) I think that there should be a public option and one that you could opt out of like in Germany. But if you do so then you are not able to jump back in for 5 years.